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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 20, 2011 11:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Out of the closet

Gotcha, eh? Not that there's anything wrong...er, nevermind.

What strikes me is the Bob bashing versus Pig bashing thread on Good Lovin. It seems to me there's been a dramatic shift here at the Forum for there to be so much commentary along the lines of "...well, actually...I skip Good Lovin'...in all eras..."

When I first arrived here I was very cautious about admitting that though I was an early era fan, I skipped virtually all pig tunes, esp the long rap filled ones (LL, MHr, and GLov, for all the reasons indicated in the thread below). And with good reason: when I would occasionally let on to this fact, back in 07 & 08, it was a much different response here at the Forum. I was very much in the minority (or so it SEEMED) in my disdain for Pig Rap Tunes (PRTs), and often was raked over the goals by the likes of GoP or other early era fans that shared my bias in all but this one respect.

My only pt is that either 1) the Forum has shifted significantly, or 2) folks have just finally "come out" with what had always been true: PRTs just don't cut it, and it's most likely because they really represent an extreme form of the juvenile, male directed antics that even SDH, Dire and myself are incapable of reaching on our "best" days here...

NOTE: I do agree with CLIFF that there are some excellent musical tidbits tucked away in some of these PRTs, esp the first four minutes of a number of LL's from 69, such as the oft discussed "ultra tight" version from 2-12-69, etc., etc.

And, as for the usual qualifiers, I will only say "pffffft!! my love for the DEAD qualifies me to drone on and on about how much I dislike certain aspects of what they did...just like my relatives"

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Apr 20, 2011 8:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

Late to the party here, but one thought: it's also a few years down the road since that earlier thread. Maybe people have just heard more. Which brings up another aspect to incorporate for anyone who gives this to grad students as a statistical project: how many Lovelights (and how much GD) have folks heard over the years? Is that related to skipping or not skipping?

Cuz in terms of coming out of the closet -- um, perhaps not all of us have spent the last 30 years listening to All Dead, All the Time. I only found the archives around the time of that thread you mentioned, and honestly, before that, I really hadn't listened to much GD for many years. The statistical increase in the number of Pig Lovelights I've heard since finding the archives would certainly make a striking graph, LOL.

I'd say I would NOT have skipped them at all when I first starting listening to all the GD here on the archives, cuz it was just so cool to find it all and I didn't want to miss anything!

But I do often skip them now, partly cuz they're very long and seem repetitive (and, yes, juvenile) if you don't have time and space to focus on the music and whole experiential/mood piece aspect. IMO they're a lot more engaging if you're listening at a time when're not doing something else and can focus ... and, again, how often does THAT happen?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 21, 2011 6:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

Not to conclude with a big fat "ah-ha!", but I think you are right, as is SDH, and together they support my theory (it's been upgraded from a mere "hypothesis" due to confirmation), to wit: we have such a lg group of regulars now that have indeed spent 2-5 yrs, for the first time, listening to 50 or more LLs (trust that though I was a big taper community sort, from 74 to 82, we had hardly any early era stuff...that all happened after I got here).

So, as we arrived here, immersed ourselves, and became bolder, we all came out over time, and now admit, "bleech, I skip all of these" or what have you...

So, I think my paradigm is as solid as a rock.

AS for the sanity biz, well, my posts speak for themselves...except to Ring, who maintains she doesn't understand most of them. Or used to. Ahem...she may be the next to fall.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Apr 21, 2011 7:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

To your point (I will disregard your statement that I was actually right as being the result of some drug induced flashback that rendered you momentarily incapable of rational thought), I also agree that the incredible exposure we now enjoy greatly influences our opinions. I recall back in the day that truly quality tapes were so few and far between that I was more than happy to spin a SBD of a mediocre Looks Like Rain and be perfectly happy. Also, skipping a song back then was truly a pain in the ass. You had to hit "FF" on the tape deck and approximate where the unwanted song ended, more often then not overshooting and ending up smack dab in the middle of a smokin' BRRB, meaning you had to hit "REV" and again hope to hit the right spot. Given the work involved, I at least was more inclined to let the damn thing run, regardless of how I felt about a particular tune. Now ease of song selection and a truly overwhelming choice of more preferred songs results in our becoming much more picky.


Plus, old people just like to complain more.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 21, 2011 7:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

Bingo!!!

My paradigm is now so big and full of itself with your reminder that my original "vector" was "time", and since, yes, we all complain more now, this is rapidly not just a paradigm shift, but a world changing revolution of Kuhnian proportions.

In a mere 24 hrs my hunch goes to hypothesis, to theory, to paradigm to William Tell's Law.

Excellent. Er, whoops--my toast with Ensure is ready.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Apr 21, 2011 7:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

Sounds like the size of your head is quickly approaching that of your prostate.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 21, 2011 8:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

Oh, that's too good...either way, it "works" (as in, you recall all my medical procedures--did you post them on the web as threatened?--and know it's in a jar in some lab, ergo, it's gone [just like Phil, eh?], or surmise it's the size of a basketball, like many of you aging male forumites...ahem).

But enough of "this is Tell's life"...

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Apr 21, 2011 9:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

Yeah, in terms of old people complaining ... kids these days! Do you know how my kid listens to the GD? He's got shows loaded on his MP3 player, and yet when I ask him which shows he likes best, he doesn't KNOW! Because he skips from song to song! That's how he does it with every band ... it's like going back to Top 40 Radio, but with their own individualized versions.

Imagine what you miss with that mindset. You'd never, ever feel obligated to listen to LLR or LRR or a Donna song, and then you'd be dreadfully ill-equipped to complain about them.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Apr 21, 2011 10:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

Exactly.

These young ones haven't earned the right to complain. Let 'em spend a few days with a couple of tape decks and some Maxell XLII 90's just for a small number of hiss-filled, 15th gen partial shows, THEN they can start bitching.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Apr 21, 2011 8:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

Yeah, I wasn't a real tape collector, but I had tapes (boyfriends and guy friends were handy for that); the tapes always seemed to be my era and just before, though. Up to maybe 5-6 years before (eg, early 70s). If tapes from the 60s were around, I didn't know. I loved the 60s sound, but only really knew it from albums.

This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2011-04-21 15:52:19

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 21, 2011 2:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

Precisely my experience...I didn't even know CE--OO--CE existed as a regularly played suite til I rec'd the Fillmore Boxed Set ~ the time I arrived here...I think I'd heard 2-3 LL's other than Live Dead by 05, etc., etc., etc.

It's really been of late that most of my views on the early era have solidified (fossilized? calcified?); but I did come with a bias in that even the one LL on Live Dead had been enough...loved the music, but was tired of the rap by the third time thru in the early 70s. So all the addt'l ones the past six yrs just fit my pre-existing bias.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Apr 21, 2011 7:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

That's interesting that you didn't know it was played regularly, and you were in SF and following them (albeit from an underaged distance, I gather). We were really in the dark before internet ... wonder what our kids will say. "Ah, the good old days of the 2010s ... we were really in the dark before virtual insta-mindmeld projection. What DID we do?!?"

Funny thing. I accidentally left a bunch of old Maxell tapes in a village here about 13 years ago, with other stuff I was storing; when I got back there, only two were still around (which in itself was amazing), but they're out of their cases so I don't know the years. I want to play them and do a detective game, but ... haven't yet found a tape recorder!!!

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 21, 2011 10:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

I had Vintage DEAD and Historic DEAD, and asked my brothers who both saw them in 66 & 67, and they said "that's what they sound like" (a Pig lead dance band doing Mhr, etc). When they were doing Live Dead, my bros had moved on, and given up on them...of course, I was only 10-12 during these yrs, and you're right--had no way to know unless the bros had gone and come home with a set list.

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Poster: ducats Date: Apr 20, 2011 5:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

"that's it, play your guitar"

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Apr 20, 2011 12:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

"...represent an extreme form of the juvenile, male directed antics that even SDH, Dire and myself are incapable of reaching on our "best" days here"

Incapable of reaching? Rumor has it you are able to "reach" around with the best of them.

Ouch, that wasn't really necessary, was it?

As for the actual question at hand, if anyone else is like me (easy, just finish reading first...)I think the reason you had so little in the way of criticism of ANYTHING Dead around here was folks were initially afraid of being seen as less of a head for ragging on any part of the band. Well, that didn't last long and now folks seem very comfortable in painting the band in a more realistic light, warts and all. Like my early "Favorite Donna Screech" post, or the recent "Who hates Terrapin?" threads we are getting folks to really "come clean" about how they perceive the band, both good and bad.

This was a band of mortals who certainly had faults, and by our pointing out those faults we are, IMHO, doing no disservice to band. I would much rather have an honest discussion, even if I may not agree with everything said, then a pollyanish circle-jerk about how this band was without fault and could do no wrong. Sorry, the minute someone said "Hey, lets give Phil a mike" this illusion was quicly shattered.

(And, yes, I have copyrighted Pollyanish Circle Jerk)

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Apr 20, 2011 1:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

Just pausing to note that I don't think there was ever any inhibition here about bashing Donna.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Apr 20, 2011 1:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

Point taken.

Although, on re-reading that thread there was quite a bit of push-back from folks who seemed utterly appalled that a member of the band was being made fun of.

This post was modified by SomeDarkHollow on 2011-04-20 20:25:11

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Poster: bkidwell Date: Apr 20, 2011 12:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

As much as I love Pigpen and understand how fundamental he was to the band, especially in the early years, I think it has to be acknowledged that he was fundamentally an imitative musician. Pig loved the blues and a bluesman is what he was and what he wanted to be. The foundation of the band was an r&b cover band backing Pig, but I don't think they would have earned much of a place in music history if they hadn't branched out from that.

Honestly, as great as Pig was and as great as the Dead were backing him, I don't think they surpassed their models. The issue of "authenticity" and race is always controversial, but sometimes Pig and the Dead sound watered-down in comparison to the great blues and soul musicians. The Dead had their own truly unique style and sound. Comparatively, the band sounded more imitative and less original during Pig's big numbers. That said, I'm always more of a half-full rather than half-empty type and no collection of "dead highlights" would be complete without some classic Pigpen.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Apr 20, 2011 1:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

I agree that Pigpen was imitative - he was happy to do the same blues numbers the same way, all the time. If it hadn't been with the Dead it would've been with someone else.
I think the Dead did transform some of his big numbers with the jams, though - you have to admit Good Lovin' is not quite just an imitative Rascals cover, nor is Lovelight just a straight Bobby Bland cover!

But the Dead were frequently imitators; originality did not shine through in all their work. Need I cite all their country covers? And after a few examples of all the dreadful blues covers they did in the '80s/90s with Weir singing, Pigpen sounds like a breath of fresh air. Their fondness for straight, derivative blues covers certainly didn't die with Pigpen.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Apr 20, 2011 12:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

I seem to recall a thread from back in the day that was about this subject (admitting you did not like a song that was considered by the majority to be great). I also seem to recall that pretty much everything ended up in there, including Dark Star. So I don't think this represents a huge shift. And also recall that for every GoP there was a Dire who believed that Pig held the band back and nearly lead to their destruction, so I don't think admitting you don't like some of his work was that unusual for the forum. I think it is a bit unusual for some one like yourself who only listens to music from that era as your cutoff is very close to his departure and it would seem like an obvious correlation with their change in sound. However I know that the change in sound that you are basing your opinions on has to do with guitar tones and energy which has less to do with Pig and more to do with Jerry and Bob.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 20, 2011 1:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

Are you suggesting I am an enigma, wrapped in a riddle,...or some such? Or that you have my number?

A number I could use (to quote pig...). ;)

I did scan some of the old threads, and trust me, as the one rec'ing the criticism, I was left with a distinct impression that there was more of it early on, perhaps around the time you arrived, 07 or so? And certainly no "rush to post" with a dozen or two saying "yup, I skip him"...(ie, what happened with the GL thread).

And to pick on one, it seems SDH is one example of someone that only in the past six months or so came out with confirmation of his doing just this, but having kept quiet about it initially...? Dunno, but it seems to me there's a significant shift in the #s relative to 06/07.

Would have to get Rob to dredge up all the old threads, provide the raw data, and let you do a repeated measures ANOVA with me as the covariate, # of attacks as the dependent measure, and time as the independent variable. Or some such.

Fun, eh?

EDIT: Whoops: here's one of the threads that I found:

http://www.archive.org/post/138843/blue-ron

In this we find out that K-man and SButt do agree, but there just isn't much generated along the lines of support for my confession (or SB's for that matter)...coulda just been a slow day, but it was as much this that I was driving at--it seems that this old post would generate a dozen or two replies along the lines of "guilty pleasures" in reverse...

This post was modified by William Tell on 2011-04-20 20:44:30

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Apr 20, 2011 4:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

Too many variables not being taken into consideration. Lots of things could influence who posts when. You'll have to control for time of year and time of day of the thread, the weather, etc. Nah ....

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 20, 2011 4:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

And for Pig, you might have mentioned "sex of poster", eh?

I wonder how that would factor into this?

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Apr 20, 2011 6:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

SButt? Really?

As for the stats, I'll give it to a grad student as a side project.

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Poster: Jack o' Roses Date: Apr 20, 2011 9:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet- now who hates lead &/or bass guitar?

Thanks for this thread_ empassioned Deadheaded perspectives are always of interest to me -whether I agree or not-

Now, who's going to start the Jerry-bash(or the Phil-bass-bash) thread? Or, has it been done? I love 'em all, Vince & Donna included- well maybe not Vince's later playing style, but ...

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Apr 20, 2011 11:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet- now who hates lead &/or bass guitar?

LOL, well, there's a lot of late-era croaky Jerry bashing (and his early playing was recently called "limited"), and I'll bet there are folks who hate the Modulus, and WT doesn't like ANYONE after '71 (lead and bass presumably included), and ... and ... and ...

As LiA brilliantly observed, "the Dead must be one of the few groups whose fans find each other's musical tastes insane." But I'd bet they have the only fans who find each other's musical tastes insane in such detail.

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Poster: user unknown Date: Apr 20, 2011 2:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

Though I agree with you Sir William, it may be judicious to inverstigate Mr. McKernan's motives. Even with the longest of Pig's "raps", he was simply paying homage (copying?) the old time bluesmen he idolized. Those randy fellows, and ladies, were known to launch mid-tune monologues that could be every bit as long as Pig's, and were quite often even more salacious.

And I must admit that I feel the same way about some of the (over and sometimes directionless))extended jams that most Deadheads revel in. And don't even get me started on Drumz>Space.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Apr 20, 2011 2:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I have absolutely no use for a 45 minute Playin'. I know some folks have gotten all exicted about things like that, but when you get down to it, once the main jam starts my mind starts to drift off about 20 minutes in. Perhaps I'm just getting old, but any one jam over 20 minutes or so usually loses me. Now this doesn't mean long stretches comprised of different tunes, but one singular jam.

EDIT: I gave the boys an extra 5 mintues

This post was modified by SomeDarkHollow on 2011-04-20 21:26:21

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Poster: deadhead53 Date: Apr 20, 2011 2:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

I agree with the 45 minute playin's, I can do without them, I just lose interest. I also lose interest in some of Pig's songs. HTH I can jibe with also good morning little schoolgirl, and alligator, but good lovin (no matter who sings it I skip it), but I do like lovelight, some of them are fantastic, others though get boring. I do like Mr charlie, two souls. Can do without chinatown shuffle "take it you git to have it" no pig you can have that song back! Hahaha!

Having never seen pig, I do though feel a great energy with the band pre-71. It seems after that it loses some of it until Europe 72. He was great for the band until early 71. Maybe I am being nostalgic of Pig not sure but I don't get the playin's either so it is not just pig's extended jams "git yo hand out of your pocket" reminds me of the line in Rockstar when Mark Walberg has to repeat that line about living a dream and being asked into the band before they go into "Standup and shout" sorry I had mild surgery this week and that movie has b a lot. But seriously, unless it is Darkstar many of the extended jams can be hit or miss, and for me anything over a 20 min jam can lose me.

On another not I am listening to Johnny Cash's Folsom Prison album, fucking tremendous. Have not listened to it for a while and forgot how good it is, many songs remind me of 71,72 dead! Enjoy your evenings and keep "yo hands out of yo pocket's!

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Poster: fourempties Date: Apr 20, 2011 6:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

Pig's raps always elicit a roll of the eyes for me... here we go again, a drunk, bleating with whiskey fueled inhibition, boring the audience to death while the band nods off. I'm sure in his head he was clever and charming. I'll give him a hall pass on Easy Wind though.

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Poster: Hal R Date: Apr 21, 2011 1:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

Was he boring the audience to death? I never got that. Is that what you saw when you saw him? Are you posing specualation as fact here? Proof please. thanks

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Apr 20, 2011 12:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

I don't like the big Pig tunes and never have. I just don't listen to them. Now, a Hard To Handle, Easy Wind, Smokestack Lightning, etc. - I'm all for those, but the shorter the better.

And I'm definitely in favor of everybody exiting all closets and wardrobes (little Ray Davies nod there).

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Apr 20, 2011 12:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

Note that fenario said the "big" Pig tunes... I've never liked 'em either. On the other hand, Hard to Handle can really jam out, let it off the leash. Always liked Mr. Charlie, nice and spunky, like a short haircut.

I never got to see Pig live, but the few videos I have seen leave me unconvinced... was he really that dynamic that you could call him a leader? He looks catatonic most of the time, even when singing lead.

And I don't mean to be "bashing", just wondering. Every band member contributed something great to a wonderful stew.

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Apr 20, 2011 2:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

Thank you, careful reader! Yes, that is exactly what I meant. I don't like the big jammed out Pigpen "rap" numbers, but give me a 45 minute Dark Star anytime ...

Also I did not exclude any of Pigpen's other fine blues numbers - most of which I love - I just didn't have the time or inclination to list them all; hence "etc.".

Four or five minutes is about as much blues as I want to hear at one time, and I definitely do not enjoy listening to Pig verbally abuse his audience. There is just no fun in that for me.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 20, 2011 4:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

Ha--yup, it's always good to find someone's actually reading it as written; I got you right off, but of course, you were largely in agreement, so it made sense to me...I am not sure why someone would suggest you might be a troll though--maybe that was just a joke.

I do think that SDH has a pt about "why" what I described happened; ie, because the Forum really took off in 06 & 07 (eg, recall Dire talking about how "slow" it was in yrs prior to those), and many of those folks are still around, it was only a matter of time before we went from "lets all be nice" (ie, our posts about the DEAD) to "well, we've covered EVERYTHING...what about things we don't like?"

It seems a natural progression as we all became more and more comfortable (or bored out of our minds?) with each other.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Apr 20, 2011 1:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

Pigpen's not well-represented on video. In the 4/17/72 show, he's actually quite weak. And in the Festival Express film from '70 he's also fairly sedate.
If we had film from those all-night Fillmore East or Port Chester shows where the audience would be howling all through Lovelight, I think it would be easier to understand Pigpen's strength.

Blair Jackson said, "It's hard to explain Pigpen's magic to deadheads who never saw him perform, who never saw him work a crowd. Tapes don't capture his essence, because a lot of it was the way he moved and the way the band grooved behind him... He had an incredibly powerful presence."
Jon McIntire: "I don't know if the younger deadheads can get Pigpen, because the documents aren't really there... When you watched Pigpen playing the crowd - and he played the crowd very well in those raps - he did it in such a way that he evoked a very warm response."
Bob Weir: "You had to see his cute little dance steps and stuff like that to catch the whole impact of the Mighty Pig."
(Phil Lesh suggested that maybe it was one of Pigpen's little dances that got the audience hooting in the 8/6/71 Hard to Handle, though I'd like to believe it was Garcia.)

Jackson's description of his first Lovelight: "He danced a little dance, and the band started building a ferocious R&B groove behind him. The jam rose and receded a few more times - and finally he led the band into the big, big buildup at the end, shouting and screaming and testifying. 'Little bit higher! Shine on me! Turn on your lovelight!' And on it went until it exploded into a blast of noisy chords and drumshots and feedback that just about ripped the top of my head off, leaving me sweaty and breathless. I guess you can say it worked."

Then again, you could argue that an audience of stoned teens in 1970 might not have been too discriminating.

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Apr 20, 2011 2:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

I'll have to take it on faith... thank you sir.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Apr 20, 2011 12:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

The Dead must be one of the few groups whose fans find each other's musical tastes insane. "The shorter the better," indeed...

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Apr 20, 2011 12:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

"The Dead must be one of the few groups whose fans find each other's musical tastes insane."

I'm not sure if you are planning on writing a book someday and that is the driving force for all of your research, however if you are, i would suggest that this should be the opening line to such a book. Brilliant observation.

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Apr 20, 2011 2:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

Now that you mention it, that is pretty funny - but I thought when writing it that I was pretty clearly talking only about the big blues numbers. At any rate, that is what I meant.

Give me an epic Dark Star or Other One every day, please, and also all those great little Pigpen blues numbers, but 15 to 20 minutes of a sloppy, half-drunk white blues singer doling out verbal abuse just does nothing but irritate me.

There are a few exceptions - elsewhere in this thread someone mentioned the Good Lovin' from "Ladies and Gentlemen." I've enjoyed that one several times, but generally speaking I'm not ever gonna listen to a Pigpen Lovelight or Good Lovin'.

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Poster: Zaorish Date: Apr 20, 2011 12:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

It's entirely possible we are being trolled, as well :)

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Apr 20, 2011 1:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

Seriously! I am so confused. Is this a Grateful Dead forum?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 20, 2011 12:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

Yup; and even the few I do, like Operator, a la acoustic variety, are few and far between (eg, Katie Mae just doesn't cut it for me, etc). Easy Wind and Operator are about the only ones...

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Poster: Zaorish Date: Apr 20, 2011 12:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

Wow, you guys don't like Mr Charlie or The Stranger? Those are a couple of my very favorite reasons to listed to 1972.

I view the Pig tunes not literally, but in the same way I view a song like "Brown-eyed Women" or "Dire Wolf" They seem to refer to a time around the turn of the century or earlier, but in a hazy, nostalgic, even cutesy way, and yet with the interesting complement of more modern electric instrumentation and jamming. I view the Pig tunes in this same light. Don't listen to Lovelight as a literal exhortation to go and grab some "box-back knitties" or "big black titties" whichever your hear, but rather as an semi-nostalgic, semi-ironic update of an older cultural item.

If you want to criticize Pig because he sounds like he's trying to sound like a black man and he's not, that's a somewhat more accurate criticism, but I still feel it jibes with the Dead's general half-nostalgic old-timey feel of their songs.

Plus yeah, song lyrics are song lyrics.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Apr 20, 2011 12:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Out of the closet

Love Two Souls. Mr. Charlie? Not so much. Its not just the lyrics, the music doesn't do much for me. Same for Chinatown Shuffle. In some ways they kind of remind me of Brent tunes in that they don't quite fit. Operator and Easy Wind sound much more like Grateful Dead songs. Odd though, they didn't play either very often, so I suspect Pig and the boys didn't hear it the way i do.